Re-Defining Masculinity to Protect Women: Part 2 of an interview with Mr. Ron Legrand.

For too long women have been talking to women in our fight to stop the abuse. In doing so we miss an opportunity to engage a critical stakeholder in the cause. The majority of perpetrators are men. However, most men are not abusive. What causes some men to view women as objects and others to view women as partners? 

As a society, we need to find out the answer to this and many other questions if we are to destroy the roots of abuse. Women need to engage in a dialogue with men who care about women and who care about ensuring that our boys get the —sometimes countercultural— messages that support them to be the “best men” that they can be.

One man who has been doing his part to protect women through legislation and advocacy work is Ron LeGrand. This is part 2 of a two-part interview with Mr. LeGrand. 

You can find part 1 of my interview with Mr. LeGrand, including his bio, here.

I understand that after your time working on VAWA in the House, you began working for an advocacy group. What is the role of advocacy groups and what were you able to accomplish? 

I went to work for The National Network to End Domestic Violence (NNEDV) which represents 56 state and territorial domestic violence coalitions. I was the Vice President for public policy. The numerous advocacy organizations do a couple of meaningful things. They advocate at the federal, state and local levels for protections for victims and survivors. They inform the public of what's happening. They make sure that the public and especially those who are being subjected to abuse, are aware that there is help available.

The National Network to End Domestic Violence, for example, publishes an annual report. You will [find] a report filed by each state violence coalition. It's a snapshot of the services that are provided on a particular day. It tells you how many individuals were served, came in and needed counseling, how many sought shelter, how many needed legal advice, and also talks about the number of unmet needs. 

The NNEDV might be considered an umbrella organization for those 56 state and territorial domestic violence coalitions. Each state domestic violence coalition is sort of an umbrella unto itself for the various service providers within that state.

How did your time at the NNEDV lead you to focus on men and prevention?

As I worked with them, the one thing that I saw missing was men. I’m talking about men doing this work, men as advocates. It dawned on me [working on the Hill] that if I met with 30 or 40, 50 advocates, 95% of the time, if not greater, I was the only guy in the room.

It dawned on me that men tended to think of this as a “woman's issue”. And if they thought of it in that manner, they said, ‘Well, I don't need to be involved’. Yet I know that if we don't get men involved and we don't have them at the table, if we're not including them in the conversation, then we're always going to have this issue. 

Men need to understand that they DO need to be involved. There are plenty of reasons for them to be involved. All of us have at least one woman who was paying a major figure in our lives and that's our mother, but we also tend to have more than that one. We may have a spouse or significant other. We may have a daughter or sister, some female relative, we would never want to see abused in any way. That should be enough reason for us to get involved. 

As you talk to men, what are some of the central themes that you are coming up with? 

At the very core of this abuse are power and control. Power and control over that person who is being abused.

Where does that come from? It comes from a lot of the messages that we as boys and young men received growing up. A lot of those messages had to do with how we think, act and behave toward girls and women. 

What can we do to counteract these messages that boys hear growing up? 

Well, it's sitting down with guys and saying “that's nonsense”. You wouldn't want anyone to do that to someone you cared about. And it's not just how we think, act and behave towards girls and women, but the message that if you play a contact sport, you're more of a man than a guy that dances.

What we've been doing is the work of engaging men and boys in these conversations. [It] is re-defining masculinity, re-defining what it means to be a man. 

I don't use the term ‘toxic masculinity’ because I've found that it has the effect of putting some men on the defense.

Lately, I've been giving it [seminars] the title ‘Becoming a Better Man’. I did that because I think that pretty much every man, no matter who he is, where he is in his life, no matter how wonderful and great he thinks he is, he always wants to be even better. So we go into that conversation with that in mind. 

I'm very clear when I'm talking to them that I still consider myself a work in progress. So why do I say that? I say it because I'm one of those boys to young men who grabbed those messages that I'm talking about. You know: Don't back down from a fight. Gotta be tough. You gotta be strong. Show no emotion. Never, ever, show fear or doubt. And then, of course, how many girls or women have you taken the bed?

What was your experience?

I was a freshman at Boston College and I was sitting around one weekend with other guys, each guy talking about how many girls [each had bedded]. They get to me and I'm still virgin in my freshman year. The conversation stopped and everybody looked at me and they looked at me with the question like, ‘what's wrong’? At that point, at that moment, I felt that something was wrong with me that I was still a virgin. I felt not only that something was wrong with me, but [that] I needed to fix it. I needed to do something about it because the last thing I wanted was to be seen as ‘less than’. Now mind you, I played football, ran track. I was in the gym. It was no question that I was an athlete, but I was still a virgin. By the yardstick of how you measure someone's masculinity, I was not quite where I should be in the eyes of others. So we have to re-define that masculinity. 

Thank you for sharing such a personal story. What message would you have for moms, dads or other people who care about boys/young men as they are maturing so that they can give them confidence in the face of challenges to their masculinity?

Well, it's a great question. I speak to men's groups and what I [find] very interesting and gratifying is that even if the event that I'm speaking at is titled a men's conference or a men's ministry, there's always a significant number of women in attendance. 

We have that conversation about redefining masculinity. The more we talk, the more I have to emphasize that there are so many messages that boys and young men get about these things that we ‘need to do’. 

There are things that parents need to have conversations with their children about. We need to have that conversation pretty early so that they are equipped and prepared for that time when they won't be home, when they won't be under our influence, and when they are going to be vulnerable and exposed to the attitudes, behaviors, and influences of people we frankly don't agree with. 

About 30% of American women are heads of households. What advice do you have for them?

At one conference I noticed that there were at least as many women as there were men in attendance. I asked how many of those women were raising sons? Every hand went up. Then I said to the group, how many of you are single mothers, raising sons. Every hand stayed up. 

I thanked them for being there. I said you need to have this conversation with your sons—very frank and bold conversations. They need to hear it from you. What they hear from you is going to be [a] very different message from what they will get outside of your home. 

So you have the ability to take this information, to take this conversation home [and] have it with your son and daughters. Your daughters need to be clear on what kind of conduct and behavior is acceptable. Your daughters need to be clear on how they should be treated and they need to be clear that they should never allow any guy to disrespect them.

What one thing would you like for victims of abuse to know?

That there's help. That there's no shame. That whatever you're being subjected to is not your fault.

What one thing would you encourage victims of abuse or assault to do?

Get help. There is help.

Please name one thing that we as a society should be doing to stop abuse?

Be very clear on what abuse looks like and what the warning signs, what's called the ‘red flags of abuse’. Very often before the actual abuse occurs, certain behaviors on the part of that abuser should give you some indication that things are not right with this person.